The Soccernostalgia Interview-Part 97 (Written Interview with Author and Podcaster Mr. Stephen Brandt, discussing his book ‘Flamengo: Winning all the Cups’ (2023))

 

This written interview is with Author and Podcaster Mr. Stephen Brandt as we discuss his book ‘Flamengo: Winning all the Cups’ (2023).

 

Mr. Brandt is a published soccer writer and has written for the likes of International, Natterfootball, and The Late Tackle.
He holds a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Modern European Military History from the University of Kansas, as well as a Masters in Sports Administration from Canisius.

In addition, he holds a USSFE coaching license and has coached different levels in youth soccer.

He is the founder of the Yellowcard Podcasting Network, and he hosts The Subs Bench show.

 

Mr. Brandt’s other book is ‘Boca Juniors: A History and Appreciation of Buenos Aires' Most Successful Futbol Team’ (2020).

 

Mr. Brandt’s contact info:

Twitter: @StephenCBrandt @Subsbenchfooty

LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/buffalojayhawk

Link to books:

https://www.amazon.com/Flamengo-Winning-Cups-Stephen-Brandt/dp/1801504539

https://www.pitchpublishing.co.uk/shop/flamengo

https://www.amazon.com/Boca-Juniors-History-Appreciation-Successful/dp/1645434508?ref_=ast_author_dp#customerReviews

 

 

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  Can you introduce yourself and your trajectory into Football?

Stephen Brandt Response :   A long-time football nostalgia writer in many different regions of the world from Buffalo, New York.

An undergraduate degree in modern European history from the University of Kansas and a masters degree is sports management from Canisius in Buffalo, New York.

Also coached refugees in Western New York.

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  What was the inspiration to write about this topic and the duration to write and research?

Stephen Brandt Response :  I’ve always been a writer in some form. My first book about Boca Juniors was good, but I figured another book about South American football would be good. The landscape in 2019 was different, as there were very few English Language outlets for Brazilian football. I wanted to bring Flamengo into the rest of the world. The supporters are very welcoming, and the English twitter account from the club did a profile on me after the book. (I don’t have it saved anymore).

To write and research this book took about three years. I had a full-time job at the time, so I would have to work around that. Generally, I would write a page a day. Research, for this one, was many books on South America, These Football Times, Tim Vickery articles, podcasts, and various other books on the sport from my Publisher Pitch Publishing. 

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  Can you summarize the place of Flamengo in the Brazilian football landscape in the late 1970s as we enter the new decade of 1980s?

Stephen Brandt Response :  I would liken Flamengo of the time period to Tottenham of the last ten years. They were almost there, they could get to finals, but not get over the next hurdle. They needed the next four managers to come in, to make them better.

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  Is the spell of Claudio Coutinho (1978-1980) in charge really the birth of this team?

Stephen Brandt Response :  The team that won everything in the 80s existed thanks to Claudio Coutinho, hugely inspired by Rinus Michels. Unfortunately, he died too young to see the result of his work. For more on his death, check out the section of the book. 

 

Photo From: Alt om Sport n24 15-06-78_22

(Claudio Coutinho)

Soccernostalgia Question:  The most emblematic player of this squad is Zico. Can you describe his status at this point in the Brazilian and International Football?

Stephen Brandt Response :  There were a lot of very talented players in Brazil, and in Flamengo, headed by Zico. Keep in mind Socrates is also around.  There’s also Nunes, and Junior. But look at it this way, Zico is the second most talented player at the time. Pele is retired and living in New York City at that moment. 

 

 

Photo From: Mondial, old series, Issue 12, January 1978

(Zico)

Soccernostalgia Question:  Can you describe the trajectory of manager Paul Cesar Carpeggiani?

Stephen Brandt Response :  His career is like many in Brazil, unless you are the top group who have managed the national team, you are just there. Brazil changes managers every month in some teams. Carpeggiani had two spells at Flamengo, two at Sao Paulo. Flamengo is the only place he had a winning percentage higher than 60%. 

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  Let’s describe the backbone of this team in the year 1981?

Stephen Brandt Response :  GK - Raul, kept the club moving forward. The fullbacks, Leandro and Junior are considered two of the best in their position in that era. They are still even 40 years later still very well thought of among the best defenders Brazil have ever had. Adrade was the holding midfielder, and at that time, they were very hard men, which he lived up to.

 

Photo From: Onze, Issue 72, December 1981

(Flamengo 1981)

Photo From: Onze, Issue 72, December 1981

(Flamengo 1981)

Soccernostalgia Question:  Let’s start this pivotal year of 1981, Flamengo actually had to go through two managers before appointing Carpeggiani in late July. The highlight under Dino Sani was perhaps the two wins in Italy in a Tournament in Naples that made everyone take notice. Can you describe these two wins and the significance?

Stephen Brandt Response : The sport is very different now then it was then. Very few players from South America actually came over. If they did, it was later, or they were to stay in South America completely. You see this in the Intercontinental Cup when Liverpool did not know what to expect. For years the European Champion didn’t play the Intercontinental Cup, they skipped it because of the issues in the 1970s. Going to Naples to win with big clubs showed the players on the club they could hit the heights and win the World Title.

Soccernostalgia Question: How did Flamengo perform in the various tournaments apart from the Copa Libertadores?

Stephen Brandt Response :  The Book is named Flamengo winning all the Cups, so I say they did well. They won the Brazilian League title and won the Intercontinental Cup. 

Soccernostalgia Question:  There is also a very important friendly in September against Boca Juniors of Maradona and we have the match-up between Maradona and Zico. Was it billed at the time as the battle between two of the world’s greatest stars?

Stephen Brandt Response :  No, it was just two very good players. Maradona didn't become the best in the world until he left Boca later for Barcelona, then to Naples after his leg injury (among other things).

 

Photo From: Onze, Issue 72, December 1981

(Zico and Maradona, September 15, 1981, Flamengo 2-Boca Juniors 0)

Soccernostalgia Question:  Can you describe the Copa Libertadores adventure, started with Dino Sani in the beginning but continued and won by Carpeggiani?

Stephen Brandt Response :  The group stages were a challenge. They had to go to a playoff against Atletico Mineiro but that finished 0-0 as well. The match was awarded to Flamengo after Mineiro had five players thrown off the pitch and finished with six players. The semi-finals weren’t all that hard, they beat Deportivo Cali in match 1, 1-0, and in match 3, 3-0. Then they also had Jorge Wilstermann in match 2 2-1, and match four 4-1. The book goes in depth on all the matches.

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  After this victory, just weeks later, Flamengo took on European Champions Liverpool in Tokyo on December 13, 1981, and it was another significant victory (3-0) and trophy for the Brazilians. Was this the zenith for this squad?

Stephen Brandt Response :  For this era, yes. In the past five years Flamengo has had another golden era, winning the Libertadores a couple of times. The Libertadores goes through many eras, and the 80s was going to see many Uruguayan team winning.

Photo From: Onze, Issue 73, January 1982

(December 13, 1981, Intercontinental Cup, Flamengo 3-Liverpool 0)

Photo From: Onze, Issue 73, January 1982

(December 13, 1981, Intercontinental Cup, Flamengo 3-Liverpool 0)

Soccernostalgia Question:  How significant were these double victories at a time when it was really Argentine and Uruguayan teams that did better in these two competitions?

Stephen Brandt Response :  It was a new hope that Brazil could take their place back at the top of the sport.

Soccernostalgia Question:  We have to mention the Brazilian National team as well, at this point under Tele Santana with Zico, Junior and soon Leandro as part of its backbone and about to stand out in the 1982 World Cup. Was his one of the greatest eras of Brazilian Football with a superb club and a National team at their height? 

Stephen Brandt Response : No, they won 3 World Cups with Pele twenty years before. The Santos side of the 50s is thought of highly.  

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  Was the death of Club President Domingos Bosco in December 1982, the beginning of the club’s decline?

Stephen Brandt Response :  One of the many reasons for the decline. Brazilian clubs never really have money, so in order to make money, they have to tour the world, see all the times Pele’s Santos went overseas. Plus, Flamengo had a record breaking year, winning cups all the time is only good on FIFA or Football Manager. 

 

Photo From: Mondial, new series, issue 40, July 1983

(Flamengo 1983)

Photo From: Mondial, new series, issue 40, July 1983

(Flamengo 1983)

Soccernostalgia Question:  In 1983 you have the sale of Zico to Udinese and the departure of Manager Carpegggiani to the Saudi League, was that the real end of this generation and team?

Stephen Brandt Response :  As far as winning ? No, but going back to the heights of 1981, yes. Flamengo won league and national titles after. 

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  Can you summarize the rest of the 80s and the trajectory into the 90s, as Zico’s departure in the new decade truly ended an era?

Stephen Brandt Response :  Boring, Zico and Socrates came in, toward the end of the 80s to try for another great run. It was also a way for the Brazilian players to be seen by the selection committee of the national team. Socrates' knees were gone by that time anyway, and Zico’s leg injuries were just starting. They only played 14 matches together at Flamengo. 

 

Photo From: Mondial, new series, issue 95,  February 1988

(Flamengo 1987)

Soccernostalgia Question:  The emphasis of your book is obviously Flamengo’s 1981 triumph of the Copa Libertadores and the Intercontinental Cup but also covers the preceding and succeeding history of the club. What is the status of the club in today’s Football landscape?

Stephen Brandt Response :  They are one of the best supported clubs in Brazil. There are international fans to a point. Outside of the nostalgia writers, Brazilian club soccer is not well thought of. 

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  Why do you think Flamengo were not able to build up on this success and it was in a way the summit of this team?

Stephen Brandt Response :  It’s not easy building super teams outside of video games.

 

Soccernostalgia Question:  In closing, how is this 1981 Flamengo side regarded historically compared to other Brazilian club sides like Santos of Pele or São Paulo of Tele Santana?

Stephen Brandt Response : It’s thought of very highly. I would rank it as second to Santos. Sao Paulo was a nice era, but didn’t go as crazy as the other two.