This is the 236thepisode
of my podcast, 'Soccernostalgia Talk
Podcast’.
For this episode, I interview English Author and Professor of History, Dr. Alan McDougall
as we discuss his book ‘Dreams and Songs to Sing: A People’s History of
Liverpool FC from Shankly to Klopp’ (2025).
Dr. McDougall, an English Professor of
History at University of Guelph (Ontario, Canada)
His books include:
The People's Game: Football, State and
Society in East Germany (2014)
Contested Fields: A Global History of
Modern Football (2020)
Youth Politics in East Germany: The Free
German Youth Movement 1946-1968 (2004)
Dreams and Songs to Sing: A People's
History of Liverpool FC from Shankly to Klopp (to be released August 28, 2025)
For any questions/comments,
you may contact us:
You may also contact me on
this blog, on twitter @sp1873 and on facebook under Soccernostalgia.
This is the 12th episode of
my podcast with Mr. Paul Whittle of https://the1888letter.com/,
@1888letter.
For this episode, we start a new interview series with Mr.
David Stuart of the Scotland Epistles Football Magazine https://scotlandepistles.com/and Mr. Clark Gillies as we discuss the matches of
the Scotland National Team season by season starting with the 1982/83 season.
Mr. Stuart is a former fanzine writer and co-founder of the Scotland
Epistles football magazine. Co-author of two books on the Scotland national
side along with Robert Marshall.
Mr. Gillies has written in the past for These Football Times and
The Football Pink.
We
will continue these series semi-regularly in future episodes.
For any questions/comments,
you may contact us:
You may also contact me on
this blog, on twitter @sp1873 and on facebook under Soccernostalgia.
1- Daniel
Passarella, not playing in the 1986 World Cup
There has been much speculation over the years why Daniel Passarella
did not play for Argentina in the 1986 World Cup. The official reason was that
he was suffering from intestinal problems (infernal diarrhea) that resulted in
him losing 14 kilos.
Some have speculated that Bilardo had sidelined him because he was
along with Ubaldo Fillol a holdover from Luis Cesar Menotti’s era.
A few years ago Fillol went as far as to suggest that Bilardo had
given Passarella a laxative that made his condition even worse.
Passarella himself has does not believe that he was sabotaged but
did say that he had not received proper medical care.
Passarella believes that he had eaten or drank something
contaminated.
Photo From: Mondial, old series, issue 26, January 1979
(Daniel Passarella)
Photo From: World Soccer, October 1990
(Carlos Bilardo)
Photo From: Mondial, old series, issue 23, October 1978
(Ubaldo Fillol)
2- Ian
Rush, saying playing in Italy was like playing in a Foreign country
Welshman Ian
Rush’s spell at Juventus (1987/88) is routinely referenced as a case of a
foreign player flop in Italy.
He has often
mockingly been quoted as saying that playing in Italy was like playing in a
foreign country.
The player has
always denied making this quote and has laid the blame of this quote on
then-Liverpool Manager Kenny Dalglish who signed him back for the club in 1988.
According to Rush, when a journalist asked him why he had returned, Dalglish
jumped in and responded that “he said it was like playing in a foreign
country.”
Photo From: The Game, Issue 3, June 1995
(Ian
Rush)
Photo From: Goal, Issue 20, May 1997
(Kenny
Dalglish)
3- Roberto
Rivellino’s 1978 World Cup-Injury or exclusion
Much has been
speculated on Roberto Rivellino’s absence from the Brazilian lineup during the
1978 World Cup. After the first match in the World Cup vs. Sweden, he was
reportedly dropped due to injury. However, some believe that the Brazilian
Technical hierarchy chose to sideline him and the injury was just a cover. He
did return for Brazil in the latter stages of the Tournament.
Photo From: World Cup 78, by Phil Soar
(Roberto
Rivellino)
4- Pele’s
1974 World Cup exclusion
There has been some mystery over the years on why Pele
refused to participate in the 1974 World Cup. He had retired from the National
Team but could have potentially still participated. Some suggested that he had
fallen out with Joao Havelange over his image rights. A number of
years later Pele cleared up the mystery by saying that Brazil’s Military Junta
wanted him to participate but he refused after learning about their
tortures.
Photo From: Onze, Issue 11, November 1976
(Pele)
5- Basile
Boli-doubts about real age
When
Ivory Coast-born French defender Basile Boli broke through as a teenager at
Auxerre in the early 80s, most observers marveled at his maturity and drive for
such a young player.
However
a few years later another Ivory Coast player cast doubt on Boli’s real age.
Joseph Gadji-Celli who joined lower division French side Sete in 1986 claimed
that he had played against Boli in Ivory Coast at youth level and was the same
age as him. Celi was born in 1961 while Boli’s official birth year given was
1967. As a result many started doubting his real age from then on.
The
1984 Edition of the Intercontinental Cup was the fifth in its ‘permanent’ home
in Tokyo.
The
participating teams were England’s Liverpool and Argentina’s Independiente.
Liverpool
had won the Champions Cup by defeating AS Roma (1-1, 4-2 on penalty kick
shoot-out) on May 30th, 1984 at Rome.
Independiente
had won the Copa Libertadoes in July. They had defeated the defending
Champions, Brazil’s Gremio, on July 24th,
1984 (1-0) followed by a scoreless tie away from home on July 27th,
1984.
Photo
From: Toyota Cup 1984 Programme
(Match Programme, December 9, 1984,
Intercontinental Cup, Independiente 1-Liverpool 0)
Jose
Omar Pastoriza’s Independiente were led by veterans such as skipper Enzo
Trossero, Claudio Marangoni and Ricardo Bochini.
Bochini
was the only survivor from the Independiente squad that had won the
Intercontinental Cup in 1973 (1-0 over Juventus).
Other
players included future 1986 World Cup Champions Jorge Burruchaga, Nestor
Clausen and Ricardo Giusti.
Joe
Fagan’s Liverpool were a mixture of English and British Internationals (such as
Neal, Nicol, Hansen, Rush, Dalglish) as well as the Zimbabwe goalkeeper
Grobbelaar and Danish midfielder Jan Molby.
They
had left behind Sammy Lee and Paul Walsh back in England to nurse injuries.
They
would also miss the Irish defender Mark Lawrenson, who failed a late fitness
test. Young Scottish defender Gary Gillespie would take his spot.
This
was the first time since the 1982 Falklands War that the Nations were meeting
at any level. The Organizers had taken precaution and
lodged the teams at different hotels.
It was also understood that the match Referee, the Brazilian
Romualdo Arppi Filho, had been given instructions to stamp down on any violence
so that the match would not degenerate (not only because of Falklands but
generally previous encounters between the Nations had been violent).
Photo
From: El Grafico, Ed.Esp. nº 40 Diciembre 1984
(Both
squads, December 9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup, Independiente 1-
Photo
From: Onze, Issue 109, January 1985
(both
squads, December 9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup, Independiente 1-Liverpool 0)
Photo
From: Onze, Issue 109, January 1985
(Teams
Captains Enzo Trossero and Phil Neal, December 9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup,
Independiente 1-Liverpool 0)
Independiente had arrived earlier than Liverpool in Tokyo. They
had six full days to adjust to the conditions, while Liverpool had only arrived
two days prior to the match. The Argentines had flown for 12 hours, while
Liverpool arrived after 36 hours of flight.
The Match was to be played on a hard bumpy surface; as such
neither team could play at their optimal level.
Liverpool (playing in their non-customary away yellow kit) played
with a flat back four. As in their previous encounter in 1981 (0-3 to Flamengo)
many observers questioned Liverpool’s motivation for such matches. It was
believed Liverpool had their mind mostly on their upcoming League and FA Cup
matches.
The match itself was settled early on. In the 6th
minute, Marangoni’s cross caught the Liverpool defense flat and Percudani took
advantage to go ahead and open the scoring with only Grobbelaar to beat. The
Liverpool players appealed for offside but it was to no avail.
Photo
From: EL GRAFICO, Issue 3401, December 11, 1984
Photo
From: EL GRAFICO, Issue 3401, December 11, 1984
(Independiente players celebrating the winner,
December 9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup, Independiente 1-Liverpool 0)
Liverpool pressured after goal but could not break through as Independiente defense (Villaverde and Trossero in central defense) had
Ian Rush in check throughout the match.
Steve
Nicol was Liverpool’s most active player, along with Craig Johnston, but the
breakthrough was elusive.
Photo
From: El Grafico, Ed.Esp. nº 40 Diciembre 1984
(December
9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup, Independiente 1- Liverpool 0)
Photo
From: El Grafico, Ed.Esp. nº 40 Diciembre 1984
(December
9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup, Independiente 1- Liverpool 0)
Photo
From: El Grafico, Ed.Esp. nº 40 Diciembre 1984
(December
9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup, Independiente 1- Liverpool 0)
Photo
From: El Grafico, Ed.Esp. nº 40 Diciembre 1984
(December 9, 1984, Intercontinental Cup,
Independiente 1- Liverpool 0)
Liverpool could not properly string moves and had to go the aerial
route, which the Argentines handled.
John Wark did score a goal in the 63rd minute, but it
was ruled out, as Ian Rush was offside on the play.
Photo
From: EL GRAFICO, Issue 3401, December 11, 1984
In the end Independiente won by the slimmest of margins.
It had been a technically poor match, with the only positive
aspect being the non-violence (that had been expected).
Liverpool
ManagerJoe Fagan could not fault
the effort his players had put in; they could not find a way through
tactically. He did lament how his players did not take advantage of their
opportunities. He also stressed the better ball control of the Argentineans and
the strength of their defense.
He
believed Independiente were more successful in
adapting to the hard surface and bounces.
Photo
From: EL GRAFICO, Issue 3401, December 11, 1984
His Captain, Phil Neal believed Liverpool should have won and
claimed the goal had been offside and felt having a Brazilian referee with
linesmen from other Nations did not help communication.
Independiente Manager Pastoriza stressed that they had won because
they controlled the midfield better.
The young goalscorer, Percudani was chosen as the player of the
match and won the Toyota car.
For the fifth time in a row, Tokyo remained an elusive place to
win for the European competitors
Photo
From: EL GRAFICO, Issue 3401, December 11, 1984
Sergio
Cesar Merlini (November 13, 1962, Bell Ville,
province of Córdoba)
Coach:
Jose Omar Pastoriza (May 23, 1942, Rosario-August 2, 2004, Buenos
Aires)
Note:
Some
information for unused substitutes may not be available, therefore these are
the players on and off the field that are verified to have been present).
Photo
From: Toyota Cup 1984 Programme
(Independiente
Logo)
Photo
From: Onze, Issue 107, November 1984
(Jose
Omar Pastoriza)
Photo
From: Toyota Cup 1984 Programme
(Independiente
squad)
Photo
From: Toyota Cup 1984 Programme
(Independiente
squad)
Liverpool squad:
Goalkeepers:
Bruce
David Grobbelaar (Zimbabwe) (October 6, 1957, Durban, South Africa)
Craig
Peter Johnston (June 25, 1960, Johannesburg, South Africa)
John
Wark (August 4, 1957, Glasgow, Scotland)
Ronald
Andrew ‘Ronnie’ Whelan (September 25, 1961, Dublin, Republic of Ireland)
Kevin
Duncan McDonald (November 22, 1960, Inverness, Scotland)
Michael
John Robinson (July 12, 1958, Leicester)
Coach:
Joseph Fagan (March 12, 1921, Liverpool-June 30, 2001, Liverpool)
Note:
Some
information for unused substitutes may not be available, therefore these are
the players on and off the field that are verified to have been present).
Photo
From: Toyota Cup 1984 Programme
(Liverpool
Logo)
Photo
From: Panini 84/85 England
(Joe
Fagan)
Photo
From: Toyota Cup 1984 Programme
(Liverpool
squad)
Photo
From: Toyota Cup 1984 Programme
(Liverpool
squad)
References:
France
Football, Issue 2018, December 11, 1984
Onze,
Issue 107, November 1984
Onze,
Issue 109, January 1985
Guerin
Sportivo, Issue 522 (Number 2), January 9-15, 1985
